#7 - Iana Serena De Freitas Ribeiro @ Théâtre Les Pieds Nus - On living Aligned
noesun podcast available on all major platforms (Spotify, Google, Apple...)
Video on Youtube | Spotify Podcast
My guest today is Iana Serena De Freitas Ribeiro.
Based in Paris, Iana is an actor, an NLP coach, and a yoga teacher. She is the director of artistic projects at Théâtre Les Pieds Nus.
After seeing glimpses of her work online, I was particularly interested in her journey of transformation from her business-schooled corporate self to her becoming a full-blown artist, supporting people in their personal development.
In this episode, we talk about:
🦋 Her journey through burnout to blossoming
🛠️ Actionable insights we can derive from her experience
🎭 Her approach to theater, an interactive upgrade of its Antique form
Here are my takeaways from our conversation:
Am I honest?
Iana started talking about being honest. We know the word, and she meant something deep through it so she took the time to explain to me. Honesty for her is when you are in touch with your deep truth - what your needs are, what your intentions are, for real, not a fuzzy direction but knowing really what you want and what you don’t - and living from that truth, being aligned.
An honesty I heard being called “courage” because it means saying no, but for Iana, the difficult part seems to have been finding that truth. Saying “no” sounded easier. When you know who you want to be, “even saying “no” is peaceful”, once you are aligned deep within, it is easier to align with others.
Her journey to alignment took some time, she recognized her artistic self when she was 7 but to prioritize faster financial autonomy and meet what she perceived the expectations of her family to be, she chose a business career. It took many physical signs, including a burn out to put arts and what she truly values front and center: being honest, having an impact, and prioritizing the impact on today’s challenges (our need to change our lifestyle for a planet that can’t wait).
Am I allowing blank spaces?
Iana did not switch overnight from her corporate life at Accor to becoming a yoga teacher, a professional actor, a director, and an NLP coach. She let go of her apartment, her relationship, and her job and there was nothingness.
She spoke of two years of break. She owns that break and it is from the space she made that new things could emerge. Acting started to take more space in her life, she layered NLP in order to support her teaching and then yoga to enrich her movement acting and teaching.
You might not see an output in terms of creativity or income, and you might not even see any proof of that work when you look from the outside, but the deep inner work flourishes in such moments. And it can only happen if you allow it.
Am I giving my best? Do I allow myself to be magical?
Just as Iana’s leitmotif is “being aligned”, for some reason I spent a good amount of time in the episode talking about being “all in” and feeling some kind of calling to go all in. And I can feel how these questions or even prompts to Iana were for me. Am I giving my best? Do I allow myself to be magical?
Iana keeps surprising herself with what she is capable of. The decision to be a professional actor allowed this to happen. And she is pushing the boundaries of interactive performance in theater. Few of us are willing to bet it all on our ideas, performances, beliefs, projects. We invest ourselves in many different projects. If we are lucky all these projects are important and impactful. But (single?) focus enables us to become magical. It brings back Gladwell’s “10 000-hour rule”, the key to achieving true expertise in any skill is simply a matter of practicing, albeit in the correct way, for at least 10 000 hours.
What’s my Why? Am I being helpful?
Iana closed our conversation with a reference to Simone Sinek’s famous book and TEDx: Find and remember your why, to do the right thing, and also when things get rough and you need to stay motivated to return to work.
And “why” is also how she started our interview when I asked her how she introduces herself, her why was all about being aligned, reminding me of Gandhi’s “My Life is my Message”, having an impact for a planet that can’t wait.
And when I started talking about innovation and it felt like innovation for the sake of innovating, she went back to her center and reminded me of what matters to her: serving people, improving the lives of others through her acting and teaching, if the innovation is aligned, then yes, otherwise no.
A Full-Blown Interactive Vision of Theater
Iana shared how reduced our understanding of theater has become. The meaning we have in mind is someone on stage reciting lines they have learned. Her vision of theater is closer to what the Greeks and Romans of Antiquity were offering: singing, dancing, and acting. Amusing that the innovation is to go back 2000 years ago.
I have been fascinated by the interactive potential of theater, a potential that is not yet much realized and I was surprised to discover that Iana and Bastien (her partner in crime) are developing interactive plays that push the envelope: 4 stages around a central audience, getting the audience to participate before, during and after: having drinks before the show, welcoming them personally, organizing a wedding ceremony where the participants are treated as guests, etc.
Theater as a Transformative Experience
Iana spoke about the importance of helping her audience “arrive” at the performance. Parts of them are still in traffic or have not even left the office yet. You need to create a transitory space before the concert so people can actually experience it fully.
You want people to be fully here because of the deep work you want to do with them. The play is a transformative experience, one that has the potential to lift their spirit, transform their worldviews, and deconstruct their identity. It is one of the rare opportunities to get a group to equalize, and sync through an experience, individualities blur as people become one.
One of the main ways people come to Iana’s theater school is that they have seen the show and they felt something, they enjoyed the experience of being the audience and they want to try, meet the group, and know more. So these are the first steps: surprise and awe, then further curiosity, leading them to sign up for a class.
They show and Iana and her team offer them a wide range of activities: clown, masks, yoga, breathwork, physical exercise, voice exercises, so they can play with different characters, new energies, to get some movement and space in their identity, breaking from psychological fixity and opening towards flow.
Iana mentioned an exercise her students dread: sitting on a chair and talking nonstop. It is hard when you’re judging yourself and you want to maintain your personal filters (what is correct to say, what looks smart and culturally advanced). You can’t go into improvisation and flow while maintaining self-judgment so the voice of judgment becomes apparent.
Where personal development is usually a long project where you stack positive habits over time, theater gives you this opportunity to be who you want to be in this instant. Like Sutra and Tantra.
Our responsibility as teachers
Iana reminded us of the importance of taking good care of our participants, providing a safe environment and experiences with as little risk as possible.
Transformative experiences are opportunities to outgrow our former selves and shine, but they also contain the risk to get hurt and adding traumas. How do you first let people discover their limits and develop the capability to say “no”. What is OK and what is not OK for you at this moment?
Resources:
Raw Transcript from Descript
Mat: [00:00:00] can you tell me how you present yourself at this point of your life?
Iana: This is me, Gianni Rena, still almost 37 years old, still trying to figure out some stuff about me and life. And but the good thing about me is I think I finally succeeded in knowing where I wanted to go because I think I didn't know for a long time.
I think most people think they know, or maybe I don't even know if they know, but, or maybe we have sort of an idea of where we want to go, but who we want to be. Do we really ask ourselves who we want to be in this world? So this is a question I've been asking myself. I started asking this question to myself seven years ago.
So I had A stable job at a huge marketing company. And it was I wouldn't say it was an interesting, but very quickly I noticed that something was wrong because I wasn't feeling aligned with myself. This is my, my [00:01:00] motto, my leitmotif: being aligned. I started digging into myself.
It started with quitting the job and quitting my partner and my apartment which I had just bought, and moving to the countryside and doing theater a lot. And as I had time, The more time I had, the more time I had to dig into myself. Because when you are alone, when you have time, you have more time to think and more time to realize stuff about you and what's going through your mind. When you're busy, you don't have the time to, to go through all that process.
So all this forced me into working out a lot of traumas I had, and it was necessary, absolutely necessary that I worked on them. So I think I, it took me time, but I think I've been through my. All my [00:02:00] family and mother issues and and my personal traumas regarding my, my wounds of rejection and the need of being loved.
And I understood of this, and I started yoga for myself. I started I started NLP neurolinguistic programming for myself. And these were doors that I opened randomly, or maybe not so randomly. Maybe they ju they were just put on my way. It was the right thing at the right time. And they actually opened me to new perspectives of life.
And it's like I started seeing how little I knew and how big was the world. And the more I knew, the less I knew. See what I mean? I started understanding things about the human being and how the mind works. And the more I got into this, the more I got into spiritual stuff [00:03:00] and personal development, the more I thought, okay, this is never gonna end.
It seems like an endless work of a whole life, so that was quite a long presentation.
Mat: Yeah, it's good. I like the fact that there's no, you're not concluding it, so it's perfect. No, I'm never, there is no good. No, it's good. Was it incremental or was there like a breaking point where you're like, okay, now it's done. I can't do it anymore.
Iana: Oh you know how the work, how the body works, It starts sending you signs and you, if you ignore them, there is one point where he says, stop and you, something happens in your life.
You, I don't know, you get you get an injury or a disease or whatever and you get sick and something happens. The thing is, I think I, I close my eyes to a lot of signs, which were there from the beginning, and I refused because I thought that was the life that I had to have. It was the life that I had built.
I, it was too hard to admit that maybe I was wrong. Maybe I had made the wrong choices. Today. I know they were [00:04:00] not the wrong choices, but at that point I thought that maybe. If I admitted I was not in the right place, it meant that I was wrong from the beginning. That my studies weren't the, weren't supposed to be those ones, and they costed me like 30,000 euros.
So it was a very expensive mistake, yeah. I just thought, it's okay. You're gonna figure out, and it's a question of time and when you're not when you're unhappy somewhere, you always think, okay, if I just change my job, I'll feel better. The thing is, you don't look profoundly at what's not going fine inside you.
You're just looking at the surface. When you look at the surface and you don't dig into it, the pattern repeats itself. So there is a point where yeah, I got into depression and burnout and stuff, and obviously these are the, this is the final signal and alarm. I would say everybody, if you don't look into this and you don't change anything from start.
From something so impacting as a burnout then what will [00:05:00] make you change you'd like from a cancer?
Mat: Yeah. Yeah. It'll be, it'll come stronger and stronger. Yeah. Okay. So you, you said at the very beginning you spoke about one question, but you didn't really answer it. You said, who do I want to be?
So who do you want to be now?
Iana: I think that I got this, the answer to this. Maybe this can evolve. Okay. But I got this answer only maybe a year ago or so. A bit more maybe. And It's hard to say, but I got, I don't know if I can give you a very precise
Mat: answer. We have plenty of time, so I guess you won't be able to make it short, but if you can make it as long as you want, as long as the meaning is there, it's fine.
But
Iana: also because it's it's quite abstract. Like I want to be, for example, let's say I want to be a good person. What does that mean? For me, it means something that will be different for you or for my neighbor or for someone else. That's what I mean by I don't have a concrete answer [00:06:00] because the answer is mine.
I know I wanna have an impact. I know that I have ambitions. I am, it took me too many years to understand that actually I was capable of a lot of stuff and I was thinking too little for a long time. This is linked to my background and family and the environment I grew up in. But now I think I'm.
I'm bigger and larger than what I thought I was. So who I want to be is I want to be somebody who who is honest in her relationships. And honest seems like, yeah, everybody wants to be honest, and I thought, I wanted to be honest at first, but I realized that sometimes my behavior wasn't totally honest because I wasn't always being honest to myself.
For example, let me give you an example to be more concrete. For example, you think you you think you need something in life and you have some [00:07:00] you have Oh, you think maybe, okay that's better. You think you want a certain type of partner in your life. You think you want a partner that brings you this, and that.
Okay, you think this is what you need. So you go into you go into a relationship that brings you maybe this and that, but if you really knew yourself, you would understand that this is not really what you need. You need something else. And you weren't being honest with yourself. So by not being honest with yourself, you weren't being honest with your partner.
And if things go wrong, maybe this is one point that could give you a response to to, to the problems you could have in your relationship. And this occurred to me, and I wasn't clear. I wasn't clear also about because I wasn't clear about who I wasn't being totally myself, neither in my relationships.
I don't know if I'm being,
Mat: yeah. So basically if I understand you perfectly, it's. Honesty, but it's more the alignment, bit of the beginning of understanding truly who you are and then [00:08:00] making choices from that state. And then re basically always trying to be consistent with that inner self that you have.
So it's like honesty, but a more profound honesty than just, oh, I'm gonna tell the truth. It's like really understanding what is the truth, which kind of truth do I want to be aligned with?
Iana: Yes. And when you have this, when you have this answer, the rest comes because if you are aligned, this is my leitmotif, as I said, then.
You will know what is good for you, what is not, and you will be capable because you are sure of yourself. You will be capable of saying no to this person, no to this, but maybe yes to this. Yeah. Instead of always trying to satisfy everybody, stuff like that. Now I feel like, okay, I, I know what I need. So I'm more capable without without being afraid of not being loved, without being afraid of being rejected.
Without being afraid of hurting any anybody. Because now I know how to communicate better. And when you communicate in a good way, when you are aligned with yourself, you cannot hurt people's feelings because you are [00:09:00] in peace with yourself. So what they receive is peace. They do not receive aggression.
Yeah. So it's very linked to your own alignment. So that's all the process of who I want to be. So
Mat: When you say, who do I want to be? Is it only honest or you have other things?
I know that your honest is deeper, but is there other things or that's it. There are other things.
Iana: The other thing is I wanna I think we are here in the world. Our existence cannot be random. I think we have, it's not religious or spiritual to say we have mission and stuff.
I'm not saying that in that way. The thing is, if we have the chance to be alive and be here right now, let's make something out of it. Let's have an impact. It can be a small one, but I think, I believe in the virtuous circles you can make. When I. Make a show, or when I give a yoga class and make somebody feel good, this person, because this person by feeling good, by, by leaving the [00:10:00] theater feeling happy, then they will they will shine and spark or this happiness that will then impact other people, et cetera, et cetera.
This is what I mean. So by being a, having an impact in my daily actions, my projects, I always okay, is this going to have a positive impact on somebody today or in the future? And this helps me build my, my projects. And also I think, and maybe this will be my third point, I think there is an emergency today in the world.
I'm quite an ecologist, and I think we cannot close our eyes and shut our ears and mouths anymore. And I want to make sure that every day I do my best to help l to help leave a better world tomorrow for all children. So this made me do lots [00:11:00] of changes in my way of eating, in my day, in my way of consuming, of buying.
But I feel so happy and okay with that. I, it's, for me, it's absolutely normal. And it's not only it's not a sacrifice. It's not only that it's normal it's a pleasure actually. I feel like I'm so happy doing what I do because when I when I change my way of of consuming, of eating, when I change my food I'm happy doing it because I feel like I'm doing it for the earth and there is nothing that I love more than Earth.
Seems a bit no, it's good. Earth is beautiful and stuff, but yeah, I don't know. It's fascinating. It's cool. I'm not aware of of of this place enough.
Agreed.
Mat: Anyway, when you were talking about honesty, I thought about basically we were going back to alignment. So people say I'm honest, or I'm aligned.
Some people [00:12:00] to, to speak about the same thing with would speak about courage. I want to be courageous because I want to live aligned because that takes a lot of work. Or you need to go past your fears and basically go maybe against the stream. The fact that we all talk about the same thing sometimes using different words, and you chose honesty. Some other people speak about courage.
But anyway, I saw actually, From June, 2015 to June, 2017, there was nothing on LinkedIn. What did you do? So you started answering this what how this thing happen. Because you spoke about plenty of different modalities. So you have this burnout. What happens? I'm really interested in the breaking point. So you have this burnout. You decide to leave everything and move.
Is it Avignon you go to ?
Iana: At that point? No. I went to Countryside. It was one hour from Paris, one hour from Paris, and I had never lived in the countryside before. I'm a pure product of of, and I only, I grew up in the city. I know, I knew, just knew the city. I didn't know what was having a house, for example.
Cows every day. I had no idea. And I have the chance during five years and I miss it a lot [00:13:00] actually, because I, it was a revelation. I realized how connected to nature I was, which I absolutely didn't know. And it occurred to me that I was deeply, profoundly a countryside person.
Mat: How did you stay connected to nature in, in the city? Because. We all are, we all need nature. How did you do it? I
Iana: did, I, when I was in the city, when I was in Paris, I wasn't connected to nature at all. Like
Mat: you were not go to
Iana: the parks or is so full of buildings. There are very few trees.
Yeah, there are lots. Some parks and stuff, but not enough. And when I started searching for places I thought, ah, I would like to live closer to Bois de Vincennes because stand the streets, the cars, the metro anymore. And and that's how it occurred. And this is the moment I realized how recharging it was.
And I realized the power of nature. Before that, I had no idea. I just felt something was missing. But I had n I had no clue [00:14:00] what it was. Something is missing. I know I, there was something inside me that is craving for something, but I don't know what, but I felt like I had to escape from the from the city.
Mat: That's okay. So you go to the countryside and you're like, oh my God, that's so good. Yeah. And how, what, how's the layering process? So do you start with nlp? Do you start with yoga? Which one came first and how did those things come to your life? What came
Iana: first? Nothing.
Nothing. What came first was of of two years of nothing. Two years of emptiness. But I had, do you know this legend? I'm gonna tell you a story. Tell me story of, I wouldn't say I don't remember from which country is the story, but the country, the story is it's a man who goes from spiritual guides to spiritual guides and to meet them and very renowned guides in his country.
And he speaks to them. And every he does sorts of internships with them, to learn all the practice. Yeah, the practice and [00:15:00] stuff. And he goes to see the last one who's supposed to be, the master the highest spiritual guide ever. And and he says, okay, ha, hello master.
I'm here to learn. Tell me everything you have to teach me. Okay? Okay. Come here, sit down and let's have dinner. Okay? They have dinner and stuff. And when he finishes dinner the guide gives him more food. Eat. So he doesn't feel like re refusing Uhhuh. Cause he's afraid of being in, of being rude.
So he accepts, he eats again. When he's finished again, he says him another meal. So he starts saying I cannot, I'm being, I cannot eat anymore. He says, you have to eat more. Eat more. He insist. And he said, no, I'm full. I'm gonna vomit. I'm gonna throw up. So the guide says, see what you've done till now.
It's this. You've been going, you've been absorbing. You didn't even have time to [00:16:00] digest all the information that you received. It's time for you now to digest before going into something else. So this is what happened to me during those two years. During a long time, I had a big feeling of guilt for having done nothing because, you always have this necessity of accomplishment.
You have to accomplish something. And I felt bad because all my friends from my scholarship, from my business school, I wasn't able to tell them what I was doing because I was just simply doing nothing. But it's like my mind and my body just simply couldn't do anything. Yeah, I just needed a break.
But also this break during these two years were the beginning of a deep transformation that was necessary to then start something new. I couldn't jump immediately into something new. I had no idea what I wanted to do. Yes, I did theater. I wouldn't say I did nothing because my direction, my. Let's say my, my, [00:17:00] yeah.
I had this, I had my theater company that was created in the meantime, I started little things to go into the direction which I wanted, which was arts and theater and but yeah, that's why there is this gap.
You
Mat: can, I love it. I love it. I love the fact that you own it as well. I think you need emptiness in order to create, and it's like the, you need to give space for people to to start, for a seed to grow.
You need to give it time and Yeah. And you ju you just can't just start again. And also I think there's pressure because when you probably achieved a certain level in the corporate life. And then you go into a completely different thing and you need to go back to zero, right? Yeah. And you can't just, okay I'm switching, I'm gonna be in business and then, oh no, I'm, now I'm gonna do something completely different.
But you can't get at the same level because you need to get this experience and this understanding from deep, deep within. So I hear you. The funny thing about your story, I think we should do it as a, as an experience. You should just organize the dinner and just keep having food and force people in.
And then at the end, okay, you got the, [00:18:00] there's wisdom in it. I love that. It'll be so funny. It'll be actually funny as a performance, al, that, that kind real life dinner learning. So you did those two years, what, what came first theater you say? Yes,
Iana: that was my starting point.
Mat: And you start be, you started before when you were still still at Acor.
You were, you were, You were doing
Iana: theater. To be completely honest, I started theater when I was seven, nine years old, I think eight or nine years old. And I, when I was little, I said, I told my mom I wanna be an actress. It's it's, it was my dream. I, it's what I wanted to do. And when I was 18 and I got my bachelor, I dunno how you call it.
Mat: Ice school certificate or
Iana: something like this. Yeah. Okay. And I had to choose whether I was going to continue in my artistic studies because I was I was also a musician. I did theater and then I did lots of artistic stuff. So I was profoundly connected to the artistic world, but I also had.
My, [00:19:00] my best certificate, high school certificate, whatever with good mentions in a special class where it was the best of the high school because I was a good student and it seemed like everybody told me it was stupid. Not going to Serious studies. Big quotes. Yeah. Cause because everybody did that, it was the natural way out.
They either went to engineering or to, it was very serious studies, so I thought I had, I have to do that too, because otherwise I would be too different. Why? Why? I was the only one who considered continuing in theater. But then I thought, okay, my, I don't have any connection in arts.
My parents Are not connected to that world. And they, they worked a lot in their life to, to help me have this level of study, of studies today. So I felt I owed them and because I owed them, I wanted to make them proud and I wanted to see that [00:20:00] thanks to the studies that they gave me and the environment I grew up in.
I could have a diploma and have a serious good earning job and be financially autonomous very fast. So that may be in the future I would be the one helping them, et cetera, et cetera. So this is how it started, but actually it wasn't really what I wanted to do. I just didn't you con,
Mat: did you continue at theater during Grenoble École de Management and your
Iana: a actually, yes.
Yes. I was I was in charge of a theater group in my business school, and I also was in charge of the school the school musical. Okay. So I, I tried to enjoy, and I joined yeah. Also was part of a group of improvisation, so I always maintain You never cut. Yeah. You never cut that connect.
Yeah. No, I always maintain the link. The link with this. And during a long time I thought maybe it would be enough to have this just as a hobby. Yeah. Hobby [00:21:00] till I decided, okay. I should maybe give it a bigger chance. And maybe, and when I arrived, when my thirties arrived, I thought, okay what have I done in 10 years?
My twenties, pa, they just flew away. Okay. Then I studied and then I worked, and that's it. I'm already 30. That's, so that was how also it came. And the feeling, I mean, then obviously in my job, things weren't going well, and if everything had been going well in my job, would I be here today?
I have no idea. I have no idea If it was just
Mat: enough to compensate a little bit for the loss of theater and arts maybe you stay there.
Iana: It seems impossible to me that at the end I wouldn't have. Switched over. Yeah. Switch and gone into theater completely. But today I feel grateful for what happened to me, even though it was hard. What happened to me at work was very hard and and traumatic because [00:22:00] it took me a long time to process that.
I think it's what helped me really jump into the decision. Otherwise I wouldn't have done it. So
Mat: There's beauty. One of the things that we do in art is to try to connect with people with the kind of universal truths, and there's a way to find it, whatever profession people have, and you can always talk to them about love and things that are deep within our trauma.
All those things we all experience. So you always can connect. But the rigidity of going through school of pep and business school and then having a corporate job, it kind, if you are a writer, not the actor there's this play of, you can actually play on all these experiences that they have and you have, and that they had specifically those things because you were having them, like the OKRs, the business reviews, all these things.
I think there's beauty in creating art that is grounded in reality, but there's this opportunity when you have two lives like this to say, okay, I had those 10 years. Okay, it's not a waste of time. I can create an artwork based on this and just talk [00:23:00] to people in their particular setting. Like for instance, that's why the office is so funny, because it's just, that's the drama of the office.
It's like when it's pushed to the limit, right? But this is true in a way, those archetypes exist. So there's, have you thought about creating something out of all this corporate thing that actually has value artistically, even if that. It doesn't have to, it could be dramatic as well. It doesn't have to be funny like the office, but do you see it as food for the art or right now you cut and you do things that are not related?
Iana: Actually, when I left my first intention was it's like I, I saw how many people when the same situation as mine. Which were doing this job and not, but not being completely satisfied. Not because the job wasn't satisfying, but because something inside them wasn't completely aligned. Now I'm coming back to the word again and I thought I would like to use theater to.
To help them the way it helped me find myself and find [00:24:00] something find my own source of of energy to align myself. So at first, I, my idea wasn't to create a show or play or something that was related to my past life, but to use theater as a means that I wanted to bring inside this world that was so in opposition to arts.
And the thing is, I had to cut. For a while. And and just life drove me to different ways and different paths. So I didn't go deeply into that direction. But I do that because I give a lot of classes to adults. Adults who come from this world and have jobs like this, et cetera. So in a way I talked to them, but after I left my company, I wrote a lot.
I went during two months to Turkey in Cappadocia. And during those two months, I just wrote and wrote and wrote. And I had to write. And it's [00:25:00] like I wanted to, I had to use this means to to expel something out of me to. Yeah. Yeah. We're out. Get it out. Yeah. Maybe
Mat: Have you kept the writing?
It's
Iana: there y yeah, actually I never opened it, but it's somewhere there because I always keep my, the drawings stuff. Yeah.
Mat: Do you think there's, do you think there's enough food or do you think it could turn into a, an, a masterpiece or something like
Iana: masterpiece? I dunno if you know what this is, right?
When we do something, we have to consider everything as we wanted to make it a masterpiece. Otherwise there is no point. So you're right. Yeah, you're right. Actually Bastien who works with me and created the company with me he's absolute genius in in, in creating and he's the best ever.
And he's always telling me, when are you going to make your own? I won't say one woman show, but my. My own play? No. Cause it was, standup is a very particular type. Okay. Yeah.
Mat: You could just
Iana: play it with, just make jokes and stuff. That's not [00:26:00] my type of show. I like to do plays and shows that are poetic and that make people so dream and live different kinds of emotions.
But yeah I already thought about maybe writing and doing something that would tell this story. I just haven't figured out how, what, why, but maybe I'm starting to be ready. So maybe sooner. Sooner than I think.
Mat: How can tier help companies and people beyond the fun of it and just enjoying artistic process?
Do you see that it can unlock real problems?
Iana: Just a little parenthesis. I'm, my way of doing theater is not the way most theater companies work. Okay. Most company theater companies that go into business companies to, to make theater interventions as a, team bonding, yeah. Team building and group stuff.
They do role plays. They work on particular [00:27:00] themes like office wellbeing or professional relationships and communication between employees. So it's very specific,
Mat: it's like tools to re, to solve a pro business
problem.
Iana: Yes. It's still always oriented business and it's hidden between, office wellbeing But behind it's al it's always business.
My way of treating theater is is always connecting body and mind in theater, unfortunately, especially in France theater is considered to be just, you have a text and you just say the yeah. Reading on your play. This is not the way I consider it. But actually if you look and if you dig into, always dig into stuff, if you dig into theater history and you go back to antiquity you would know that theater was a whole art, which included dance singing performing acrobats and so it was very complete.
So artists were they also, they wrote and they played [00:28:00] music. They were really complete artists like. You wouldn't say, oh my God, what they do, you're not capable of doing it. Yes. Somebody standing in front of an audience and just saying their text. Actually, there are more people who can do that. Not, maybe not everybody, for some people who be more difficult, but there are more people who can do that than then then jumping and doing stuff with their bodies.
And just to say that for us, I say us because I'm not alone in this in this company, and we teach as a. As a pair. We always work connecting the two elements. Mind and body. Mind and body. So we do a lot of work that is physical. We do little tiny workouts and trainings. We listen and work on traditional music.
Musics that come from India, Japan Eastern Europe Latin America, whatever. We we work on clown, masks, voice but [00:29:00] also do yoga, breathing work. So it's very complete. And these are means. And when you connect one thing with a with another, you start realizing what you do. The exercises that we do in theater are not properly theater exercises, but people say, my God, this is so useful.
This makes me realize stuff about me. I'm gonna give you an example. We have that particular one exercise that terrifies all our students, but yet they love it when they have done it. You go, you sit it on a chair and you have to speak nonstop. You speak. Okay? So you start by what I like in life is, and what comes, what pops into your mind immediately is your subject, and you just let the words come out as they come and it flows.
The thing is, when we do that exercise, most of them stop. Because their mind is so powerful that they start judging what they are saying [00:30:00] and they start thinking. But what I'm saying is is bullshit. It's not good enough. Yeah. Yeah. Good enough. And actually I am, I it's not about the subject I said I said I was gonna speak about, about I don't know the sun.
And I'm suddenly, is
Mat: that ok? Oh my God.
Iana: Yeah. Yeah. It's so into the mind. And the thing is, it's actually when we want to do, and so they start over the exercise again and stuff, and we see how the mind is powerful and you, we just not even trust what comes out. And we have those personal filters.
Mat: Oh, I hear what you're saying. I get I was, it was a leading question because I felt the same. One of, one of the things that happened to me in theater was I had to play anger of, I think I had to cry on stage, so going far in one emotion, and it was so difficult and it was the same, it was a controlling mind looking at me like, what, how, first you don't really know how to do it.
And then it's like judging myself of. What is correct, how you do it, how people do this thing. So it's, yeah, it's super powerful. Super powerful. [00:31:00] And so companies do hire you, you do find clients, even if your way is completely different from the other
Iana: companies. Yes, it happens. What we like most is going we are generally hired to go into schools and talk to students and initiate them.
That's what we do most. But we have been having more and more companies yeah. Asking them to come do some workshops for two hours and stuff. And
Mat: must be funny. The first time, the first 15 minutes we're like, okay,
Iana: yeah. But it's something we like and it's difficult to work with adults.
A lot of people would say, oh my god, working with children, it's so difficult because it's a lot of energy, but children are open to anything. They're not how to say, format?
Mat: Yeah. Formatted,
Iana: Molded. Molded, yet they're not molded yet. Yeah. And they ha and maybe they have some traumas, but not yet, not that much As adults, my God, adults are just just a huge [00:32:00] baggage of emotions and traumas and very
Mat: fixated.
Yeah. And yes, we're, so that's, yeah. That makes it more interesting because then you can see the difference, but it's hard in two hours. In two hours you can just give them a glimpse of it and be like look, you start, you starts, you start shaking the structure. It's oh something happened, you just can create curiosity, that's the thing you can achieve. Yes. Can you achieve more than curiosity after two hours?
Iana: Yes. Yes. But I think two hours is too short. No, we, I say two hours, but it's generally work on three hours. Three hours. Three hours is more.
Yeah. In three hours you can, something can happen and they, you can have a little impact and they remember it after three hours, two hours is a bit short. Gotcha. And yeah, sometimes even people come back to and just get into our adult classes
Mat: and what do they seek when they come to theater?
I'm not talking about the, I'm more interested in the people who are not looking as an art form, and more people who are looking at it as a personal development tool. Because the art form is okay, I'm gonna practice theater and [00:33:00] maybe at some point I can become a professional actor. That thing is a different story.
But I want, for instance, to be more impactful in my speech when I present something. Or is it someone who's lack of confidence, anyone to be more confident,
Iana: strangely. Some people have told us this why do you come here? What is your main reason for starting theater? And they would say, because I feel it could be useful in my life because I wanna feel more confident, et cetera, et cetera.
So all the most popular reasons for doing theater are there. But generally, I would say the majority of people who come into our classes have seen our shows and they have loved it so much and they lived and experienced a true experience in that moment that they say, I'm gonna go further. And I started feeling something as a spectator of the show.
So I wanna work with them. It made me want to know them more because what I saw on stage was so powerful, so interesting that I wanna know how, [00:34:00] who they are and maybe this could help me. And ah, it's beautiful. Yeah. It's actually the show that made them want to. To meet us.
Mat: And so at the end of the show, do you say, Hey guys, we give classes.
Do you promote it actively or it's just that they look for more
Iana: experiences? Sometimes yes. Sometimes there is a little flyer with with all our information. It's a great, it's a great, it's a great idea. Sometimes it's just word to mouth. Sometimes they just do their own research. They know the name of the company and they say, okay, I have to with them.
With them. And that's it. Do
Mat: you as a, sorry I'm going from in theme that are completely, there's no story. But basically I always thought about the beauty of involving the public more than in tra typical tra traditional theater where people are just looking and maybe clapping and smiling and laughing.
But do you give them a role, an active role in the scene? Or how do you, in, how do you make it more interactive so that people have a stronger involvement beyond their own feeling and their inner ecology, let's say. Ah, you have
Iana: to come to see that? [00:35:00]
Mat: Can you come to executive? Can you come to
Iana: executive?
How can I, yeah. Yeah, that would be a pleasure. How can I tell you an experience that is something you're supposed to live? It's very difficult question, but y what I like about your questions that you're saying something that is very true and that we are trying to break is this wall there is between the actors and the stage and the spectators because this gives a distance.
It's not television. If you want a screen, then just stay home and watch tv. Yeah. But the thing about it, it's called spectacle vivant. So living art, the reason because it's there, because it's physical. So this is what makes theater powerful is that one night w wouldn't look like the following night because maybe today I was tired about and yesterday I was I was sad and it's very subtle, but and the way the public reacts has an impact on us, et cetera.
Yeah. So yes, it's one of the main objectives of the company is make the public live [00:36:00] something strong. Like the comparison might be a bit A bit a bit daring, but why not? At least myself.
Mat: I love
Iana: the No, why not? You know what you feel when you go. Even though we, there are a lot of comics about the latest world Cup, and I'm not a big fan of how it was made yet.
What I recognize about football is that it federates people and nations. Okay.
Mat: And it's okay to scream. It's one of the rare places where people can scream and jump and it's it's OK to jump and scream. Yeah. It's ok.
Iana: And it's like you, you share something powerful among a lot of people that don't know each other.
And that's the power of football. That's also the reason why I regret there. It's, it should be even more beautiful in terms of what they transmit in terms of values and stuff. But this is another subject. We're not here for this yet. What I recognize about football is this power of uniting people.
Okay. I believe that all the places that assemble people, [00:37:00] typically theaters, it could be movies, places where people who don't know each other are suddenly joined together with the same objective is to watch something that they're all, they have one common point. They are here for one, we, one reason like concerts, or festivals.
When you have this, wow, this energy that comes because your favorite group is there on stage and just suddenly everybody loves each other and there is no judgment, there is no there is no discrimination, there is no racism, there is no such stuff because there is one thing that unites them and they all see their common point.
The problem with theater is that theater has lost a bit of its beautiful reputation of being something that elevates us for two reasons. First, it became something very elitist either you have very expensive shows with with big names and stars and stuff. Either you have things that are [00:38:00] of poor quality, sorry to say.
But yeah, very. There's stuff that it's poor. So that's the first reason. And the second, what was my second reason? Yeah, it's it lost. Its it's not fancy anymore. Netflix and stuff are here now to entertain us There was a town
Mat: it'ss, it's hard to create the same magic of of a $2 billion movie that with in a
Iana: room.
No. Is that when theater was born, you didn't have smartphones, you didn't have tv, you didn't have anything. The best of escaping your reality and your daily routine was this place. It was the only stuff. You also had the Olympic games and stuff like that, but there were less sports at that time.
Or nature. Oh, yes. Or nature. But nature, you go generally by yourself, but places that would yeah.
Mat: Everyone focusing on the same point, what you said at the beginning and
Iana: with a lot of people at the same time. Yeah. And now we have a lot of choice in terms of of entertainment.
So yeah, also the way we teach [00:39:00] theater in school makes it so boring. So a lot of people think theater is boring or it's complicated, or it's just for intellectual people, because sometimes, and that's true, and I understand that the public sometimes is mad at us because there are people who just do plays for themselves and not for the
Mat: audience.
Yeah. I think also the reason why, People don't like it so much, I think because you don't get more interaction in most places. Most places are giving you the same interaction that you would've on tv.
So what's the point?
Iana: So what's the point? Yeah. And that's why I I like your question because because I think this is a mission that we have and a responsibility that we have as actors. Otherwise yeah, just stay.
Mat: But I would, so let me suggest I, just to go deeper, because I thought about this already and I didn't have time to write anything, but we did, I told you we did we did a show.
So I'm not saying it was a great show. And we worked a lot on it. And one of the things that I enjoyed the most was when we were going in the public, in the audience and [00:40:00] looking at people in their eyes. So we would escape the stage, go there and look at them and talk to them. And that was one of the strongest moment for me as an actor.
On the, on in the show. And I started reflecting about that particular dynamic and I was thinking, okay, how can you have people actually interacting with the actors? Because at the end of the day, it was not like a comedy show where if it was saying something I could have improvised, I was doing a fixed a fixed gig, right?
So it was weird because I was asking them questions, but actually I was not waiting for, I won't, didn't want an answer because it would've fucked up my lines. So please don't say anything that kinda fear of it. I hope you're not gonna say anything. And I was really interacting with them. I was, it was quite a violent, the way I was interacting, cuz I was going to them and like a meter away.
I think it was Covid, so maybe a meter and a half and talking to them. And then I started reflecting about this as a dynamic and I was thinking how beautiful it would be to start the theater before people are seated. So imagine, for instance, some of the actors. [00:41:00] Being in the streets and a asking for money, for instance, begging in the streets.
And, most people would not, they would act as if they were not the actors. They would act as if they are beggars. So they would have an interaction would be, which would be a bit shameful of, ah, I didn't take care of this guy and now he is the actor and he's looking at me and he is on stage.
Or someone getting drunk outside and interacting with someone, having a fight. Like creating personas outside the stage so that when they go on stage they have a different meaning and people have an history with them. And also as I was thinking about all the different dynamics and I feel like you can't do it.
If every show was doing this kind of thing, it would be ah, okay, they're gonna be outside and they're gonna do this thing. So they would, you would lose the element of surprise. So obviously that won't be, every show can do this thing, but at the deepest of this question I have is what kind of mechanisms we can play with.
So clearly I'm having a different experience than the tv. And I think that's one of the things that is cool with the comedy shows is because they [00:42:00] try to make jokes with you when you're on the first row, or with you when they're, and when you scream, they do something with it. They do, they play with it.
And with traditional theater, or even modern theater, usually there's the audience to stay. And one of, one of the shows I saw, I didn't play in it, but one of my teacher was playing in it. It was a show where the scene was in the middle and the spectators were all around, so we were like a circle.
And sometimes the actor was one meter away. I think it's proximity, even if there's no interaction, create something. I think also seeing people naked, like stuff that are completely moving you, so breaking patterns also does something, but I'm surprised. And that one of, I told my friends, like the company we were talking, and I was very surprised that at this stage, There's still very little is done in terms of that deep interaction.
And there are so many opportunities. So if you want ideas, I have a few because I've been reflecting about this
Iana: course. I would, I'm open to anything. But your, what I like about your question is that actually it's systematic. In my theater company, [00:43:00] these questions are automatic. They're not questions.
They are
Mat: like, checklist, we need to do this. There,
Iana: yes. Yeah. For us, it's normal to, to welcome the audience and and be there when they arrive. For example we have done a show where once we just shared a drink with them in the middle of the show, it was it was Romeo and Juliet. And when they get married, we just said, okay let's NICE's.
Cool. It's really cool. And in si, which is a play I'm going, I'm gonna perform next month and my February 13th. Yes. We, there is a moment, but there is a character that goes into the, there is a character in the, I would love like to say the whole surprise. Yeah. Okay. But there's a character that goes into the audience to give them a surprise and they interact with them because they offers.
The audience something specific. So there is an exchange. So there is always something. And after the show, we always go to see the public and talk to them. And we, so depending on where we [00:44:00] perform, the possibilities are different. And you're right in saying that, maybe there is a point also where you have seen everything and some, everything has been invented.
If all the theater companies did that, then it would be hard to reinvent yourself and make that effect of surprise. But what I like about going to theater is that there was a time when you went to theater, it was a sort of ritual. You dressed yourself, you put a lovely dress and a tie.
And you went to the restaurant and you have a, you had a good dinner and then you went and it was a whole event, in itself. So it was your moment of the week where you had that special night that you make it special. For me, making it special is part of the package.
Mat: I love what you're saying and I, before you continue, I just want to, because otherwise it's, I'm gonna, I might miss this, but there's, the responsibility is not only for the actors, basically what you're saying now, it's like you have a responsibility to make your evening memorable by what you do before, during, after, and connecting with the actors.
Yeah.
Iana: Actually it's our, [00:45:00] it's not their fault If they don't do it anymore, it's because
Mat: things are wrong. Yeah. I don't I'm guilty. I'm guilty there. My wife is more like this.
Iana: And then we also have a the responsibility of make them have a sort of "sas" when they come from the outside world of their daily, their job and stuff, and the transports and the traffic jam.
And make them switch progressively into something that they were gonna live. And that when they leave the place, the theater, they leave with this little something inside them and they don't lose it. Yeah. So it's also our responsibility. So
Mat: I like it. I love it. I love how you're approaching it.
I love how you're approaching it. Thank you. It's great. It's really great. Okay, cool. So going back, we went deeply into theater, so I think I think I get the picture on the theater side and I'm very excited. I would like to see you I won't be in Paris on the Feb, February 13th, but if you, do you plan international dates or something like this?
Iana: We'll be in Avignon next July. [00:46:00] Actually, a is quite something different in terms of theater because the fact that we are doing parades during the day to meet the, to attract people. Yeah, to bring people, to attract public makes you have a relationship with them and then you see them in the theater.
So this is quite also a bit different. So hopefully after the festival, maybe we'll have a. Who knows. Let's let's pray and cross fingers that will have international dates. So if that's the case, you will be informed,
Mat: Okay, cool. Yeah. Barcelona is a big French community and I know a few people there, and as a selfish ask come to come to Zagreb,
Iana: be selfish.
That's ok. It's not, doesn't only depend on me. That's, yeah. Yeah. The difficulty, but
Mat: it would be pleasure. Lovely. Okay. I think so there was theater that was always there. So basically we have the first like the common link of your life through all these moments. Then there was p you spoke about p and l, yoga, breath uh, p um, wellbeing and personal development.
How does happen during those two years [00:47:00] of Okay. Nothingness a bit of theater. And a little by little, I guess you layered stuff, like you discovered something and you started going deep. How did that
Iana: happen? When we created the theater company and we started giving theater classes, I felt I needed to to legitimize myself.
Cause I had obviously a feeling of not being legate and the postal syndrome. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So who am I to instruct those people and give them lessons about theater. So I needed to learn stuff. I don't know. I need to reassure myself at first, and that's how I started N lp. I started, okay, I am dealing with human beings, and I remember that when I was young and I have theater students sometimes.
The positive and those negative thing about theater is that it, it's very close to the intimate, barrier. And sometimes you even go through, because when some e emotions come out, when stuff of the real you, of the inside, you come out on stage. [00:48:00] Sometimes it's not even conscious, it's independent of your will.
Yeah. So when you deal with this sensitivity and this zone of intimacy, you have to take care of it. So as a theater teacher, I consider I have a huge responsibility because when you touch that sensitive zone, either you help people, outgrow and then they shine and it's great.
Oh, you heard them. Exactly. Yeah. And then it takes years to go past that trauma. So it's not a joke. You cannot say anything you want on stage just because you're the professor. That's not okay. That's not okay. That's how lots of, too many, we have students that come in our class and say, I had a very toxic teacher at first, but I didn't realize because I considered he was a teacher and it was theater, so I had to believe what he said.
I didn't realize how not Okay. It was. And they wouldn't know where [00:49:00] to put the limit. So this is also something I'm thinking of working on. How can I try to make people realize and what is okay and what is not when they do hobbies, yeah. Yeah. So I started N LP to understand human psychology and make sure that my communication would be well oriented and that I wouldn't do to others.
What some teachers had done to me. I wanted to take care of them. My mission was make them feel better. So I had to work on my, on my um, feedback. Yes. Pedagogy,
Mat: yeah,
Iana: approach. Yeah. So that's how it started and it just opened new doors to me.
Mat: So you were not trying to work on yourself at that point.
You were like, okay, I need a tool for my, another toolbox for
Iana: It was meant to be a toolbox. I don't know. I was attracted, it was I don't know, it was a bit random. It came, oh, cool, this sounds interesting. I'm gonna, I'm gonna dig into that. [00:50:00] It was not expensive then. I, it was a certificate online say, oh, that's cool.
I'm home. I don't have to go to a school. I can do that at my own path. It felt right at that moment and suddenly just opened so many doors to me because I understood more about, about the brain, about our reactions and emotions, and suddenly I thought, oh my God, if I just, I knew that sooner.
I wish I knew that sooner. And I wish everybody knew that. So that's, yeah. Would be easier. Yeah. So that's how I started wanting to tell everybody about, oh my God, did you know that we are not, our emotions actually. Do you know that our emotions are driven by something else, et cetera, et cetera.
There are no negative emotions and stuff. That's for the NLP part. And then I wanted to work on my body and also for my acting practice for me as a, a professional actress and and I was attracted to yoga. It's, so sometimes you are attracted to [00:51:00] something. You don't know why exactly.
I had an idea of what yoga was and I had the idea that yoga was a good way of of being stretch full and having a beautiful body and a beautiful way of moving. And I was aware that some. Parts of my body were a bit stuck and I needed to work on them. So I thought yoga would be a good way of venturing because it seems approachable because I thought I'm too old now to start a dance class because I can, but they don't work deeply into your body and stretching.
I'm not going to saw gymnastics, like when you are a little girl and yeah, you throw this stuff in the air. So I thought yoga maybe is a good intermediary. That's how I started and I started a little practice for myself. And then I thought, I feel I need to go further. I need to get to go deeper into what yoga is.
So I I made this teacher training 200 hours. It's the first step of being a teacher. But my idea wasn't being a yoga teacher at first. It was just [00:52:00] Training a new, having a new chord in my using actually my teacher training in my theater classes. Because as I told you before, legitimacy again, yes we work on on the body and every class of theater starts with movement with movement and body workout and stuff.
So I thought, oh, yoga would be a also a good approach. I need to understand the body better. I need to understand anatomy. So this this training is going to give me a lot of information about all this. And then I'm going to do that in my theater classes. So it was my objective, but then people started calling me and say, I saw that you were doing yoga.
I saw you on Instagram. Actually, I would like to take a class. Do you by any chance give yoga classes? Say actually I, yeah, I have a diploma so I can like this. I love it very more, very much. And it started like this and I loved it. So now I have. Two, two slash three activities.
Mat: And at what point did you use those things on you?[00:53:00]
Immediately. Immediately,
Iana: yeah. As I, I entered these these new things for a professional reason, let's say. But immediately I saw the impact on myself.
Mat: So you started going cool. And how do you see the intersection between all these different things? How do you integrate them?
Iana: That's what I was gonna say actually.
For me, they're all linked. Some people, when I say that, it's not immediately obvious, but yoga is about working on a way of being. It's not about only about asanas , and, the postures. It's about a way of living it's philosophy and. Behind the philosophy. It's a connection of the mind and the body. And doing yoga is a way of living , there is a lot of lessons about how you should behave towards yourself, towards the others, et cetera.
And this goes with Yoga Yu. Then NLP is about also the mind and breaking [00:54:00] patterns. When you understand more about how your brain works, then it helps you change. And and theater, it's our approach that was already l. Very connected to this type of approach. So it's just the approaches that are similar, it's like saying Pilates and fitness have common points.
Yes, and there are common points between Pilates and yoga. And sometimes there are things that seem a bit different, and yet they have a common a common basis. Yeah. So I would say that N L P is about understanding yoga is about applying and theater is just a means.
Mat: Playing like the role player the companies are asking for, but you just do it with other tools.
Iana: I would say first step you, maybe you can take any step you want, but it's not necessarily in that order. But NLP is for understanding Yoga is for applying your, in your daily life.
Because as I said, it's not only philosophy[00:55:00] it's not only postures, it's also philosophy and way of being in your life and theater would be okay. Now that you have done all this, expand yourself. So through theater we write, we create, so then you have gone through this, you can expand and you can explode the way you are meant to be.
We always say that to our students, we see you the way you really are and the way you really are is bigger than what you think you are. Actually, I.
Mat: Which is, so the, are you aware of the difference between Sutra and Tantra? The Sutra is more incremental way to an enlightenment and Tantra is you live it right now.
Ah, okay. Okay. To me it looks like you have the Sutra is like the yo yoga and Lp you little be little, you learn those blocks. And then the theater is a cont container where I can be wherever I want and you help them. So do you help them with identity? Basically creating a new identity. Do they write it or they just play it on stage?
Iana: It's more complicated than that because some [00:56:00] people already, and they're very open and flows faster.
Them and some, you have to be very careful the way you talk to them and the way you make them work. So we are very that's part of I think any teacher's job is to understand how to address to each students because you don't speak to each the same way. That's, I think one of our strengths is being able to see who everybody, who each person, what ev each person needs.
Sorry. And and maybe before really being what they're meant to be, they need to go through several steps. So we have students that make it in their first year of theater and some people will take more time. 3, 4, 5 years maybe. And that's okay. And that's okay. We don't all evolve at the same speed.
Yeah.
Mat: We did a lot of retrospective, and you wrote in LinkedIn that you didn't like that. So maybe looking ahead do you have any doubts [00:57:00] about where you are, what you're doing in the company? What are the things that you are not sure about? What are the half baked projects, the things that are still forming right now in your life?
Iana: I would say that for the first time, I have no doubt about where I am and where I'm going. But till now, I felt some things were missing, and I think that the things that were missing were especially my mindset.
As I said at the beginning of this conversation I think that during a long time I believed, I wasn't meant to do big things or huge things, and I'm not blame blaming my parents for that, but I'm just saying because it can explain the context, explains them, be involved in, if I had grow, grown up in a family where my parents were successful entrepreneurs and I had heard all my life about success and the mindset to have to create a [00:58:00] successful enterprise, then at 20 years old, I wouldn't have had the same mindset that I had when I had 20 years old.
The thing is my parents didn't have a successful work enterprise, et cetera, so I had to build this. This mindset. This mindset. And this took me a long time, and I think that I was, for too long, I was very lonely lonely except that I was with Bastien, who, who is my my business partner.
But we didn't have, because he grew up in the same type of environment, me. So we didn't have all the keys to go where we wanted to go. And it's very recent that we have started to meet new people who have Opened new doors to us and we have enlarged our network and therefore our knowledge, our cap capabilities.
And this is how things,
Mat: it's growing. So you're, you are basically, you are just in the perfect [00:59:00] space for rocket launch. You're prepared and you're like, now it's and you're gonna,
Iana: you've just, the feeling you've perfectly described the feeling I'm at right now okay, now
Mat: it's, yeah. So what are you working on right now? What is right now taking most of your energy?
Iana: We have a new class. We used to do theater class for adult amateurs, but now we have a professional class.
One of our dreams was to create a theater school that would be different from all theater schools, et cetera. Otherwise why do something if it's to do the same, yeah. So we had a vision because , we had our own disappointments on art schools. And there are schools that you can find in the United States and in United Kingdom that you don't find in France in terms of content and quality of learning. So we had this big dream of creating a professional school. So we started with one class, and this is an unprocessed, this is Okay.
Long-term [01:00:00] project. I would like to have my own. Place. I was in the process of buying a theater and then the prices came. So it's not the perfect moment, but who knows? Maybe it'll be this, maybe it'll be something else. Maybe it'll be just another day. But having my own place where we can express and build our own shows and tell people because we have things to say.
We have an identity, a strong identity, and we have things to, contribute and work on doing more master classes, workshops and stuff. So this is for the theater company part.
And then on more NLP and yoga. My project is to help people, connect people who are not necessarily fond of moving of sport, et cetera. Give them the facility, showing them that it's easy to just move 10 or 15 minutes, giving them the guts to do it. And give the accessibility to moving through videos.
So I have to create all these [01:01:00] videos and create a sort of program, an online program. So that's one of big projects for the year. And then among other things I'm working on creating my own Affirmation cards and my oracle and , I would love to create my own podcast and my 2024 agenda, because I have my own journal.
Mat: This can be your first episode for your podcast.
Iana: Why not? Why not?
Mat: Cool. If, If you feel yourself at a crossroad, what would be the two options or what paths are lying in front of you at this particular moment of your life?
Maybe it's for your projects or if you are for yourself as well.
Iana: If I had two options and I had to make a choice, you mean if
Mat: you were, if you visualize yourself in this situation, which road do you see?
You know what, when I tell you about this what do you see?
Iana: What comes into my mind immediately is A way, I dunno if that answers your question. There is a way where things will just flow the way they've been flowing till now.
So I, now I know I have a sort of process now that works. I have my classes and I have something that is ongoing and [01:02:00] it's okay and it works. So I have this track and I have another track where it can be bigger and I'm to go to that track.
Mat: But you will need to give up on the other track basically to do it properly.
Now the mindset is ready and you're aligned and you're like, now, I can do it. I have Bastien, we're strong, we're building our network. We have everything to do it right now. And now it, it brung me back to the struggle of our own play when we were practicing because we had other things, right? Everyone has a work and it was a side thing. And so you could not put that many hours.
So even with the best intentions, we ended up working just a few hours every week until 1 month to the show, and then everyone accelerates and we kill ourselves in just three weeks. And when I think about your thing, with all the knowledge that you have, all the experience you have the team, you are ready to do something big.
We talked about Netflix, you have the big shows, and all those things, in my mind is more like more human beings putting more hours towards something, more resources. And it's just not, 20 people, but it's like hundreds of people working toward one [01:03:00] particular event, which is a one hour and a half moment where people are dreaming. And so when I feel about you competing in that market or let's say, not competing, but contributing something of value to the world, it obviously needs to be going deep enough for long enough so that you get some magic.
And the question is, who has this time to create that much magic? And I know that, for instance, our group didn't have the time or didn't have the intention to go that deep. One of the guys became a professional actor. Another guy is a director and he is doing multiple projects. But most of the group was not fully focused.
But if you are focused with Bastien, and it's just about putting enough, like focusing all this energy into one thing. And when you talk about all the different things you have like probably five or six, and I interrupted you before you finished actually. So the list is very long.
It's a part of me. When you were talking about this was life saying, Hey, why don't you just put all your wood or your energy behind one thing and you make something magical that then explodes, because the things we were [01:04:00] talking about the ideas that was sharing about making an interaction, it doesn't exist yet.
So for instance, this is one of those things where, this doesn't exist. You do it. But I, to me, when you, what you were describing is not full in, it's one parameter in your show. It's beautiful, but it's one parameter. How about the whole show is this wedding scene, right? Where the whole thing, everyone is participating, which is crazy, right?
It's very chaotic because how do you play the, maybe you need to prepare the audience. Maybe they need to watch a video on their way in, like whatever. But whatever project you take to me, it's like going beyond the fear of putting all your eggs in the same basket.
Then unless you do this, it doesn't happen. That's what I felt. Maybe those are the two roads you saw. That's my contribution to the two road I see as well. Yeah. I spoke too much.
Iana: No. No. No. I'm thinking about what you're saying.
As you were talking, lots of things were popping in my mind. You are right, you're right about one thing. You cannot do [01:05:00] many things perfectly. So it's not about being perfect on everything you do but trying to be doing your best at least. So I think you have to make choices and do less, but do better.
And in that sense, you're right. And it's part of something that I acquired that I, it's best practice that I didn't have much till now, is being able to organize myself in my year according to the projects and what I want to achieve. So I'll have to make choices and I know that among all the stuff that I gave you on list of things that I wanna accomplish, there are many things that won't be for this year.
And for the first time of my life, I'm okay with it. And I'm not projecting my frustration, even though it hasn't started because. I think that's also what's pleasant about life is is the taste of of progress and the taste of these little things that come and having new projects is part of the excitement.
Yeah. And there are stuff that we are now experts at, like [01:06:00] creating shows with our students. And see, you spoke again about this what we make the public live, which is actually, you're right. What is our identity? What is our priority if we want to make people live important stuff?
Isn't that where our focus should be? And yeah, our focus, and this is more Bastien 's specialty and zone of genius, and that's our strength is that every show is completely different. We had last year a show where we the audience was bifrontal. So we played in the middle, in sort of corridor and on the right and left.
The public was there, but we also, a few years ago, there were four stages and the public was in the middle. We this year we are doing a sort of it's a different play, but it's in the same idea. It's, it happens in a wedding. So we decided to invite people to a wedding and they would just be eating and having a meal, and the play would offer this is brilliant.
Stuff like that. [01:07:00] See? Yeah. Yeah. This is thing that we like to do. I don't wanna reveal any everything because I want people to clap.
Mat: Yeah. Please. But wait. Yanna, what, so basically if I look at, but I don't want to, I don't wanna be contaminating your own process, and I don't want to be pushing anything because I think what you're saying is beautiful.
Like I, in my mind, there's. What I would just do as a follow up to the previous question is, okay, let's say that there, it's not no longer a crossroad. You don't need to choose, actually. You never need to choose. And so you were telling me about not choosing, but maybe one thing is stronger than the other.
And so which one is this thing? But before you go there, in my mind, what you need is basically one thing that makes you explode nationally. Probably like one scene, not one, all, one masterpiece that everyone knows you for is probably what you need to have. And yeah, I think the interaction is the key to this.
Because, no, I don't hear about other things like this. Maybe I'm just not connected enough to the world of theater, to be honest. But yeah I feel there's something there and it's not something that I discovered today with you. I've been thinking about interaction for a long time, and everything you say [01:08:00] is quite innovative, I think.
And the question is, How innovative do you need to make it so that it becomes the thing that everyone wants to see? Like what? I went there and I guess your, all these experiments that you've done all the different stages already. Thinking about the stages, thinking about the moment in the scene, all these things are, you went already quite far.
We have to
Iana: be cautious that what drives us isn't the absolute necessity of being innovative, but what drives us has always to be what the public lives point for staff.
Mat: Yeah, it's not ego, it's not my own success.
Iana: Yeah. Because if you are just on the, on your own thing, innovation, then you lose.
Yeah. Your why you lose What why you were here in the first place. Yeah. So my point will always be, and knowing that I don't always need to reinvent completely myself because there are 6 billion people on earth. And before all these people I don't intend to be the 6 billion people will see the shows.
[01:09:00] But what I mean is if I only take even Paris, Even though my show Cyrano played for two years per Paris is so big, even though it's a little city compared to London or New York, Paris is already so big that actually maybe it's only 1% of Pariss in the show. So with one idea, you al you already have the time to to, yeah.
Transmit it to a lot of people and make that blow. So you were right in saying that my focus would be this year on this showcase. That would be our big,
Mat: so writing a new play, basically that's one of the focuses.
Iana: No the focus for 2023 would be the showcase to, to give the show Cyrano the proper visibility it deserves.
So
Mat: you think it's already there, Siano
Iana: is already great enough for it to be, for you to focus on
Mat: promoting it instead of creating a new play. That's
Iana: when you have spent so much time creating a very good product [01:10:00] and you have had enough years to perfection it. Yeah. Okay.
To, and suddenly you're gonna say, oh, I'm gonna do something else. Instead of selling this perfect product. You've been working for years. What do you say? I am also aware that we have been through two years of COVID.
Mat: Yeah. Covid. We don't have a chance. Yeah. Yeah. So you wanna give it a real chance.
Iana: Yes. Because when it started, really succeeding, suddenly everything stopped and boom.
Yeah. Theater closed and we were went home and we were unemployed. So yeah, I wanna give that a chance. And also because cultural environment is a bit special, so it doesn't work exactly the same way as. It has lots of common points that's in that way. I'm thankful having done a business school because I understand how the world works.
And then, yeah, other place would be the would be the next priority because we have to emerge as an entity with our own identity. And that's why we also need a, we have this visibility with our amateur shows. It's a way of it's sell little products. We have a main [01:11:00] product and we have little products
Mat: around.
Love it. I'm very excited. I'm very excited. Is there anything you wanna share beyond what we talked about? Anything that, that, that came up to you?
Iana: Thanks for this very pleasant conversation, listening to my story as I was speaking.
And and also I am thankful for that because you gave me the opportunity to remind myself my why, you asked me about it. And it's something you have to, to if those who are listening have never done this, then it's my best advice, I would say is work on their why. The why.
You can find Simon Sinek's conference for TED on YouTube. And he explains that very well. And I think that finding your why, Gives you purpose of life in life and and reminds you why you get up in the morning and when you do stuff, why, when it goes wrong, , when it doesn't work, how you stand [01:12:00] up and how you keep motivated whenever you are tired or fed up or depressed or, so I think the why is something very powerful and just remembering that my why is linked to, other human beings makes me realize how important it is, and I don't have to give up.
So it gives me motivation to, okay. Okay. Let's go back to work now. See?